It is currently 17 May 2012 11:38
All times are UTC - 5 hours


Welcome
Welcome to Ships and Giggles

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: DC's "New 52" Initiative
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2011 14:30 
Offline
First Mate
User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2009 06:44
Posts: 678
In case you were living under a rock in the 16th century, I want to borrow your time machine. If you didn't, you are probably aware that DC used an event miniseries called "Flashpoint" to reveal that the DCU as we've known it for at least a quarter of a century, with parts of it going back all the way to the 1930s, has been broken. That we've followed just a third of what should have been. The other two thirds are Wildstorm and Vertigo, apparently, and a mysterious cloaked female character merged the three parts into one with the help of Barry Allen.

Yesterday, Justice League #1 launched on the same day as the final issue of Flashpoint, and it's our first taste of the new, partly rebooted, partly familiar DC Universe. It's the first of 52 monthly ongoings, along with mini- and maxiseries like the Starman spinoff The Shade (which starts in October, with covers by our very own Tony Harris).

I read Justice League #1 today, and the spine of the New 52 this book is not. I won't join the massive stream of complaints that you find on the internet, but it doesn't keep the promise that Justice League #1 will introduce us to this new universe. With that I mean that it doesn't show us anything of importance, but at least it's entertaining. Batman and Green Lantern (Hal) bicker for a couple of pages, confront a shapeshifting alien in Gotham City and fly to Metropolis because they think that Superman (the only alien on Earth they are familiar with) is connected to it. Add a subplot about a teenage football player with an absent dad, and that's the whole issue.
It would make sense if this Justice League book, like JMS' Supreme Power a couple of years back was the only series telling tales of this brave new DC Universe. That way, we would be able to explore the new world slowly, at a pace the writer deems fitting, and we'd get introduced to the characters one by one. The problem is: This isn't the only book in a new Ultimate DC sublabel. This is one of 52 new ongoings, most of which take place five years after the events in this issue. This is the equivalent about an alternate pilot episode of Lost that was 100% flashbacks about the characters before they ever board the plance, and then watching a Jack tv show, a Sawyer tv show, a Hurley tv show, a Locke tv show and so on in the week before the next episode hits.
All in all, I liked the issue despite its odd pacing and despite half the team not appearing at all in the issue, but I fear that it won't click with enough readers to make this relaunch a success. And if this New 52 approach fails, DC will be in massive trouble.


Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: DC's "New 52" Initiative
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2011 15:39 
Offline
Cannon Loader
User avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2009 06:58
Posts: 161
Location: Lenexa, KS
I pretty much agree with you. It's not a bad story. If it wasn't the very first, or if it was released with 12 or so of the other New 52 titles it would be quite good. But as a first taste, as the one they're putting on the pedestal as a definitive statement of what the new DCU is... it's just ok.

Jim Lee's art is great and Johns is a good writer, though this was a bit more decompressed than I tend to prefer, so I can see why they thought this was a good choice as their marquee book, but I think either delaying this a week and releasing it with the rest, or, perhaps more appropriately, releasing Action Comics #1 to launch the line, would have been better.

That said, I did like it and I do plan on buying issue #2. I don't know how it will be received by newbies though.

_________________
Twitter: @JDDeMotte
Comics Are Awesome - A video review series about awesome comics.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DC's "New 52" Initiative
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2011 22:51 
Offline
Carpenter

Joined: 07 Aug 2009 10:06
Posts: 573
Michael Heide wrote:
...to reveal that the DCU as we've known it for at least a quarter of a century, with parts of it going back all the way to the 1930s, has been broken. That we've followed just a third of what should have been. The other two thirds are Wildstorm and Vertigo, apparently...

Wait, what? I heard about the reboot before, but not about this part. Hopefully this won't affect the Vertigo and Wildstorm series that don't already cross over with other series (like Sandman, House of Mystery, WildC.A.T.S., etc. do).

Michael Heide wrote:
...This is the equivalent about an alternate pilot episode of Lost that was 100% flashbacks about the characters before they ever board the plance, and then watching a Jack tv show, a Sawyer tv show, a Hurley tv show, a Locke tv show and so on in the week before the next episode hits...

When I first found out that the traditional superhero comic series not only had multiple authors but also crossed over with each other so much, I realized that they look like "a Jack tv show, a Sawyer tv show, a Hurley tv show, a Locke tv show and so on..."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DC's "New 52" Initiative
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2011 12:01 
Offline
First Mate
User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2009 06:44
Posts: 678
JasonD wrote:
If it wasn't the very first, or if it was released with 12 or so of the other New 52 titles it would be quite good. But as a first taste, as the one they're putting on the pedestal as a definitive statement of what the new DCU is... it's just ok.

Jim Lee's art is great and Johns is a good writer, though this was a bit more decompressed than I tend to prefer, so I can see why they thought this was a good choice as their marquee book, but I think either delaying this a week and releasing it with the rest, or, perhaps more appropriately, releasing Action Comics #1 to launch the line, would have been better.

Or, if they really wanted to start with Geoff Johns and Jim Lee and the biggest heroes of the DCU, they could have given us all seven Justice League members in a standalone done-in-one story that introduces us to the whole universe, and then followed it up with this as issue #2, giving us the background, setting up the question of how it went from there to the group we saw in #1. That way, we would have gotten a great, non-decompressed introductory issue to the New 52, by a creative team that DC wants us to see. But it would have been more exciting.

Quote:
That said, I did like it and I do plan on buying issue #2. I don't know how it will be received by newbies though.

The initial reaction seems positive. But yeah, I'm looking forward to more reviews by non-DC-readers.

Hsifeng wrote:
Michael Heide wrote:
...to reveal that the DCU as we've known it for at least a quarter of a century, with parts of it going back all the way to the 1930s, has been broken. That we've followed just a third of what should have been. The other two thirds are Wildstorm and Vertigo, apparently...

Wait, what? I heard about the reboot before, but not about this part. Hopefully this won't affect the Vertigo and Wildstorm series that don't already cross over with other series (like Sandman, House of Mystery, WildC.A.T.S., etc. do).

This was established in Flashpoint #5. And characters from Vertigo (Constantine in Justice League Dark, Swamp Thing, Animal Man) and Wildstorm (Grifter, Voodoo, Stormwatch) have appeared in the solicitations and promo artworks ever since they spread the news about this New 52 thing.
Vertigo books like Hellblazer don't seem to be affected, and Wildstorm doesn't exist anymore as an imprint.

Quote:
Michael Heide wrote:
...This is the equivalent about an alternate pilot episode of Lost that was 100% flashbacks about the characters before they ever board the plance, and then watching a Jack tv show, a Sawyer tv show, a Hurley tv show, a Locke tv show and so on in the week before the next episode hits...

When I first found out that the traditional superhero comic series not only had multiple authors but also crossed over with each other so much, I realized that they look like "a Jack tv show, a Sawyer tv show, a Hurley tv show, a Locke tv show and so on..."

Fair enough. But that still makes the pilot issue kinda ineffective. Since we have no reference point for these characters in the present, launching the new continuity with nothing but a fifth of a flashback to a time when all of the main characters were still kinda douchey just isn't that good a move.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DC's "New 52" Initiative
PostPosted: 02 Sep 2011 15:44 
Offline
Leftinnant
User avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 2009 06:47
Posts: 294
I long ago decided that when DC came to a point that it decided to put Barbara Gordon back to being Batgirl, it was time for us to part ways. When that moment finally came, and especially given the virtually nonsensical reasons they gave for doing it, I have no regrets or second thoughts about following through with this instinct.

So apparently the last issue of DC I'll buy is one of Gates of Gotham (I didn't get the whole series because they didn't think it was worthy enough to have the same writer do the whole thing, which is a clear signal about how unimportant they viewed it).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DC's "New 52" Initiative
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2011 05:13 
Offline
Carpenter

Joined: 07 Aug 2009 10:06
Posts: 573
Michael Heide wrote:
...This was established in Flashpoint #5. And characters from Vertigo (Constantine in Justice League Dark, Swamp Thing, Animal Man) and Wildstorm (Grifter, Voodoo, Stormwatch) have appeared in the solicitations and promo artworks ever since they spread the news about this New 52 thing.
Vertigo books like Hellblazer don't seem to be affected, and Wildstorm doesn't exist anymore as an imprint.

Yeah, I knew that about Wildstorm.

Meanwhile, for a completionist like me, I'd still count a story as affected if more is added to the story under another series title, another imprint, etc.

For example, I got to read all of the Ex Machina story. :) Even though no more Ex Machina titles will be released under the Wildstorm imprint, if DC releases another issue with Mayor Hundred in it under the main DC imprint then that would add to the story (and then I wouldn't have read the whole story anymore until I finished reading that issue too).

Michael Heide wrote:
...Fair enough. But that still makes the pilot issue kinda ineffective...

Of course! I just thought the way you used the Lost example was the best way to describe that impression I got earlier. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DC's "New 52" Initiative
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2011 13:14 
Offline
Cannon Loader
User avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2009 06:58
Posts: 161
Location: Lenexa, KS
Week 2:

I picked up Action Comics, Batgirl, Stormwatch, Swamp Thing, Hawk & Dove and Animal Man (in the order I read them).

Action Comics - This was fantastic and should have been the book they released last week. A young Superman who harkens back to his Golden Age roots when Superman was not afraid to get his hands a bit dirty and rough people up, and yet isn't quite the powerhouse he is typically shown as today. Morrison shows a different side to Superman that most people don't know, and I appreciate that.

Batgirl - I did a "Most & Least Anticipated Books of the New 52" video and this was on the first of the least for me. I said that as much as I think Gail Simone was going to write a great book, I wasn't interested in seeing Barbara get out of the wheelchair. Well I was half right, just not the good half. This was... boring really. The story is about Batgirl dealing with her PTSD after regaining her ability to walk and now putting herself in danger. And that's fine, I know some people took issue with Barbara freezign when a gun was pointed at her just like in the Killing Joke, but I can see what Simone was going for, but the problem is there's nothing to hook me here. The only carrot dangled in front of us is how Barbara got cured. The villian is just there, and kind of goofy looking really. The cliffhanger ending seemed kind of dumb and there's nothing going on Barbara's personal life that makes me care about her character. I trust Simone will address some of that in the future, but it totally failed to hook me on the first issue.

Stormwatch - This was rather good. It does suffer a bit by having a big cast and since the only familiarity with the Wildstorm universe is having the first trade of Warren Ellis' run on the Authority, I didn't know most of these characters nor did I know if I'm supposed to or not. Cornell does try to infodump as well as he can, but it is exposistion and it comes across as exposistion. That said, the rest of it was really good and intriguing and probably the one I want to reread the most to try to grasp onto all of what is going on. I'm on board for the next issue.

Swamp Thing was fantastic. It took its time to build up a story that was creepy, and established the mood of the book. It was unafraid to use the DCU elements, but having someone like, say, Superman in the book didn't hurt the atmosphere. While the Moore run on Swamp Thing is one of those things that have been in my blindspot forever (I want to read it, just never bothered to track it down), this is a solid book and would recommend it.

Hawk & Dove - I know, I know. Liefeld. But it also has Sterling Gates who I heard did fantastic things to turn Supergirl around. That said I was about halfway tempted to toss the book across the room when I opened the book and saw the first page Liefeld gave a reporter eyes that were not asymmetrical. I wasn't expecting greatness but Liefelds work here was really distracting. Also the first half of the story was a bit dull. But once the costumes came off and it became a bit more honest and introspective about the characters instead of big dumb action, it read a bit better. If anyone but Rob Liefeld had drawn it, I'd give it a weak recommend, but I can't currently. That said I think I might try the next issue. Maybe.

Animal Man - I picked this one up digitally because I heard a lot of buzz about it after I had gone to the comic store. This is probably my favorite of the New 52 so far, which is pretty amazing when you consider I listed three amazingly solid to awesome books this week, and one of them by Grant Morrison, but I do think this steals the top spot. It has Animal Man doing the family thing, and it's warm and heart touching, has some superheroics, family drama and yet also has horror aspects that really shocked me, and I don't shock easily. Seriously, unless you're squeamish, I highly recommend this book.

_________________
Twitter: @JDDeMotte
Comics Are Awesome - A video review series about awesome comics.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DC's "New 52" Initiative
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2011 09:35 
Offline
Carpenter

Joined: 07 Aug 2009 10:06
Posts: 573
Jason D wrote:
...Action Comics - This was fantastic and should have been the book they released last week. A young Superman who harkens back to his Golden Age roots...

Releasing it first could have harkened back to the whole entire DCU's roots. Wasn't Superman in Action Comics before DC printed anything with the title Superman? :)

Jason D wrote:
...The story is about Batgirl dealing with her PTSD after regaining her ability to walk and now putting herself in danger. And that's fine, I know some people took issue with Barbara freezign when a gun was pointed at her just like in the Killing Joke, but I can see what Simone was going for, but the problem is there's nothing to hook me here. The only carrot dangled in front of us is how Barbara got cured...

That reminds me...

Vaneta Rogers, in 'Why They Endure(d): ORACLE Remembered by Creators, Advocates,' Newsarama, 07 September 2011 06:42 pm ET, wrote:
...James B. South, chairman of the Department of Philosophy at Marquette University, who examined the Oracle character for the book Superheroes and Philosophy, said the change from Oracle to Batgirl seems like a backward step.

Image Image ENLARGE

"We are losing a major example of an adult woman in comics as well as an example of someone who can be a string leader while finding herself physically incapacitated in certain ways," South told Newsarama. "It does seem to be sending the message that DC thinks readers of comics are more interested in traditional superhero activities and are not able to handle a strong, disabled woman doing things in her own way."

Perhaps anticipating the anger from some fans, DC has incorporated Barbara's former disability into the new Batgirl comic. For example, Barbara Gordon will still have to undergo physical therapy, and she'll deal with her recovery within the story...

Now I wonder if later issues will answer, has Barbara Gordon stopped using a wheelchair permanently or does she use a wheelchair part-time like Dahlia MacIntire does?

R. K. Milholland, in 'Look at Little Sister pt 1,' Something Positive,, 12-01-04, wrote:
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DC's "New 52" Initiative
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2011 17:59 
Offline
Deckhand
User avatar

Joined: 01 Aug 2009 09:27
Posts: 49
Location: Chicago
Big fan of the new Aquaman series. For those that were on the fence, jump towards your LCS and get it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: DC's "New 52" Initiative
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2011 15:30 
Offline
Deckhand

Joined: 02 Sep 2009 12:58
Posts: 76
So far, the only new #1s that have drawn my interest are Animal Man and The Flash. Both #1s knocked them right out of the ballpark. I'm a big fan of Jeff Lemire, and the new Animal Man has started off quite well. I absolutely love Manpaul's art on Flash. I hope both books will stay out of the messy DCU.

I've been thinking of giving Aquaman a try, and will probably pick it up this week. I may also pick up the two new Milligan books ... Red Lanterns and Justice League Dark. Also hearing good things about Swamp Thing, but am on the fence as I've never had much interest in that character.

After dropping Teen Titans a few years ago, I decided to give the new #1 a try. Sadly, it didn't make the cut.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

It is currently 17 May 2012 11:38
All times are UTC - 5 hours

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

  

suspicion-preferred